Posts by Band on the Run

54

Temporarily tired of JW boyfriend. Should I: a) leave

by SEL in

or b) continue in my plan of eventually getting him out with steve hassan's help?.

option b is going to be expensive but not impossibly so.

but it would require more patience than i think i have.

Band on the Run

Go to the KH with him and hold hands. It can be a not so subtle test of his intentions. A friend of mine dated a man one year ahead of us in high school. He was very bright and was accepted into medical school. Anthony was very dependent on his Italian Catholic family and my friend fit in perfectly. They attended Italian events together. She was not stupid but thick. Soon, Anthony had a Polish medical students as his other girlfriend. If he had a medical school event, the Polish one was the gf. If it were neighborhood Catholic, my friend attended. Both saw the other and hated each other. Sadly, they never connected as spurned women. They had so much in common. A boyfriend having his cake and eating it too. They were in anguish.

Growing up is partly deciding who you will be. If he is a Witness, he has no business having you as a gf. It is insulting to every devout sister. This trait would be understandable in a fifteen or sixteen year old boy. Teens need to experiment. Do you want to be part of an ongoing experiment at thirty?

The truly hot issue will be child custody. People get divorced with far less dividing them than a cult. I feel bad for you. The heart has its own rules. Implicit in your post and most replies is that it must be either one or the other. Maybe you need time to sit back and reflect. I want to act on things instantly, particularly things that my Witness background makes difficult. My mother committed child abuse by allowing me to go to KH and having Witness literature. Do you want your children dreaming of sports teams or heaven or Armageddon? It is a very steep price to impose on others. I respect an individual's right to choose but not to impose it. Maybe your bf is adamant that you will become a JW. This happened with a Jewish/Catholic couple I knew. Both assumed the other would convert to their religion out of love. Sadly, they were a great couple. Religion affects us more than we understand. They broke up. Each married someone of their own faith.

I grew up where marrying an outsider was romantic. Jewish/Catholic marriages were heralded. The fact is tremendous tension exists. Some people can beat it. Not many.

Let the process wind its course. You are seriously considering the future. He could use your support as a friend or lover. Of course, lover doesn't exist for Witnesses. Maybe the two of you can beat the odds. It sounds as though your tolerance is waning. JW seems to be part of his very being,not clothing for him. What does your gut say? Listen to your self and not anyone else.

67

If you could have dinner with any historical person...(top 3 choices)

by Ron1968 in

jw
friends

.

if you could have dinner with any athlete, scientist, president, artist, or religious figure what would be your top 3 choices?.

ron

Band on the Run

1. Jesus of Nazareth.

2. Benjamin Franklin.

3. John Lennon or Paul McCartney. The FAb Four merge as one.

4. Bob Dylan, but I would not expect warmth.

20

Will women be suppressed in heaven too?

by unshackled in

since a regular theme in the bible is to suppress women and place them below men, will they be treated the same way in heaven?

why or why not?.

Band on the Run

What did Rutherford say, a hank of hair and a pile of bones. Ridicule and expression of his perverted sexuality will not fade. What truly worried me wasn't so much surviving Armageddon since I was not perfect, unlike every other JW. It was that the WTBTS would run a theocratic government. Sartre wrote about people not relating to each other as hell in No Exit. A theocracry ruled by Bethel would be worse than Dante's depictions of hell in the Inferno.

Growing up I was terrified of a nuclear bomb. We hid under our desks at school. Society was obsessed. Soon, a different attitude emerged. We are so close to NY we will never surivive. We won't know what hit us? Better than surviving in VT with those suckers. I will gladly perish at A/.

54

France to Fine Women Wearing Full-Faced Islamic Veils

by leavingwt in

france to fine women who don full-face islamic veils in publicthe french government decided wednesday to impose a $185 fine on women who wear a full-face islamic veil in public, pushing ahead with a controversial ban despite signs of tension between france's muslims and the christian-tradition majority.

president nicolas sarkozy said his government was forwarding the legislation to parliament because it had a "moral responsibility" to uphold traditional european values in the face of an increasingly visible muslim population, estimated at more than 5 million, the largest in western europe.

he called the course chosen by his government "demanding" but "just," and he insisted that the law was not intended to stigmatize the country's muslims.

Band on the Run

Please prove to me with factual details why Islam is such a threat. We are discussing the religion Islam, not Al-Qaeda. Maybe I'm an idiot. I notice too much touchy, feely without details. How is Islam more of a threat now than when the Marines were first called to foreign shores in Tripoli? What about North Korea, no paragon of religious freedom. China. Why is one religion more of a threat?

Are you aware that Moslem Americans were also slaughtered at the World Trade Center and probably at the Pentagon, too?

Visit a major city and be aware that you are interacting with them and they with you with no problems. I recall when the latest horror was the Red Scare, which never existed. Yes, we had communist spies. Our fears to expel all communist taint led us to Viet Nam. We lost expertise we could not regain for generations. Civil rights workers in the South unhinged Americans. It was the end of the end.

It is one thing to be afraid. I am very afraid. In fact, I shook with terror b/c many of the buildings I normally frequent were of high strategic value to Al-Qaeda. I did not know it until later but the FBI was monitoring several of my regular haunts. Rational people should distance themselves from their unwarranted fears. Bob Dylan, Masters of War. With God on Our Side.

God is Jesus. well, Jehovah. God is Allah. In WWI and WWII, the combatants prayed to the same God using the same liturgy and doctrines. I don't have answers but I know to ask questions.

31

Terry's not the only one.....

by journey-on in

jw
friends

...that can ask "what would you choose" hypothetical questions.

i hope he'll answer mine.. what would you do if science proved beyond any doubt that there is an afterlife where one's consciousness gets uploaded to another dimension at the time of death and your "soul" carries on (like a caterpiller morphing into a new form as a butterfly) in that new dimension.

wait....i'm not through:.

Band on the Run

Someone posted an interesting observation. The Internet is not designed for data dumping. Law requires massive amounts of text. Text is never copied and pasted and left to hang on for eternity. It only two or three sentences to summarize text before pasting it if you must. I skimmed four lines. My time is worth something. Call me old but reading it is difficult. If a few sentences summarize the text, which would be much better as a link, I could decide whether I want to read more. My default impulse is to not read. Sadly, I probably miss intriguing articles. The people here are interesting. What they want to share must be interesting.

How can science prove something that can't be measured? People gives grants to universities all the time. This university garnered press attention with its study. A media consultant would have been much more expensive. Science does well what science does. The humanities exist for a reason. Faith exists for its reasons, too.

58

Why the Memorial Is Held on the Wrong Day

by Leolaia in

tonight on the evening of april 18, 2011, observant jews worldwide will celebrate passover seder, a night "different from all other nights".

the watchtower society annually schedules the memorial for jehovah's witnesses on a date that is supposed to coincide with the jewish observance of passover, as it would have been reckoned during second temple times (in particular, in the first century ad during the life of jesus).

this year the memorial was observed last night, the evening of april 17. the two religious observances are thus a day out of synth, at least this year.

Band on the Run

For goodness sake, they live in Brooklyn! Even in Brooklyn Heights, Jews are plentiful. No one could yell out in public, "Hey, when do you celebrate Seder." Jesus observed Jewish traditions and rituals. The Jewish authorities were good enough for him and he was God so he ought to remember when Nisan 14 was. He should remember the Exodus and particularly the events before his crucifixion. If I were Jesus, both events would stick out in my mind.

I apppreciate the details but, for me, this isn't about painstaking details. It is about false authority and humans so self-centered they don't need research libraries, consultations, discussions before action. The blood doctrine is a perfect example. How many have perished b/c they have no cohesive picture. It seems Bethel always does things ad hoc. Of course, this is not new insight for me. Nor is this new anger.

My youth was so tainted by their strange beliefs. Beliefs I never shared though I sure people pleased. They go out of their way to be different. Only they can access the Bible? Any literate person in any culture can access the Bible. The Bible authors employed different genres, poetry, narrative, etc. to paint a very complex and often contradictory picture. The Witnesses new WT is do dumbed down. God is not a dumb human.

25

What Exactly Is Christ Supposed To Be Doing In Heaven Now According To The Watchtower?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i understood that christ was "waiting".

waiting for what?.

so what's jesus christ doing right now?.

Band on the Run

C.S. Lewis wrote the Perlanda series how all inhabited planets were under God/Aslan. Earth was the great dark one when seen from outer space that had succumbed to evil. Maybe Jesus is being crucified on another planet.

I've written recently of my greatgrandfather being remnant. I used to worry if he could see me in the bathtub from heaven. Jesus of Nazareth poses similar questions in my mind.

The Anglican Church teaches that Jesus always existed. The scriptures are muddled. I've asked what useful tasks did he do hanging out in heaven waiting for the Incarnation. Certainly, as God's son and God, he did not crochet. Everyone laughed. In the Witnesses, such comments can get you executed. There is also scripture that we preexisted.

4

Memorial Day Calculation vs. Jewish Passover Calculation

by Band on the Run in

the witnesses teach about nisan 14. oh, happy days, nisan 14 has been out of my life for decades.

we always had a beautiful full moon for memorial.

it always scared me.

Band on the Run

John is written much later than the Synoptic gospels. He is a theologian, not a historian. I'd go with Mark, Matthew and Luke. John's timing of the passover was written for his target audience. Mark and Matthew wrote to Jewsh Christrians, Luke to Gentile Christians. Yet they all agree.

Scholars must have pondered this since the days of canonization - at the least. What new research could come forward at this time? The problem I have with reading scholarly articles is that I know nothing of the authors. I'd don't know their knee jerk reactions, their biases, their tenure battles. When I practice law, some scholars have more heft than others. If you read many law review articles and Sup Ct briefs, a pattern emerges. One of two treatise authors will be cited for authority. Unless a prof tells you or you are deeply engaged in research, the articles don't come with a rating. Three stars for reputable scholar, four for top in the field, one for law student. You can tell law student material, actually.

Without this info, it is hard to put material in context. I think the distant period and its very hallowed subject matter makes perspective very impossible.

Why are JWs always contrary to every one else? It is as though they deliberately seek to be. If a scholar can publish, maybe it means the Witnesses aren't completely looney. There is still a judgment call. Since Passover is a Jewish hollidy and Jews don't use our calendar for religious reasons, I don't see the problem. I could also argue that it does not matter. The idea is important. Their smug attitude annoys me no end.

54

France to Fine Women Wearing Full-Faced Islamic Veils

by leavingwt in

france to fine women who don full-face islamic veils in publicthe french government decided wednesday to impose a $185 fine on women who wear a full-face islamic veil in public, pushing ahead with a controversial ban despite signs of tension between france's muslims and the christian-tradition majority.

president nicolas sarkozy said his government was forwarding the legislation to parliament because it had a "moral responsibility" to uphold traditional european values in the face of an increasingly visible muslim population, estimated at more than 5 million, the largest in western europe.

he called the course chosen by his government "demanding" but "just," and he insisted that the law was not intended to stigmatize the country's muslims.

Band on the Run

Almost every country trumpets Free Exercise of Religion. Communist China did. Words are easy. Soaring language is nice in definiing document. The real test for political and civil rights is protection of the minority. I became a lawyer b/c my mom was expelled from high school for not saluting the flag. No one is denying that there is not tension between a Western view and the Moslem world.

Why don't people worry about the lack of religious freedom in China? Hindus dominate Indian society. Why no concern for Indian immigration to the US. Moslems provide a boogey man. I've known many Moslems living in NY. They are NO threat. A woman banned from wearing a burqa infringes my personal rights. The Constitution is a living document, not a sterile document in the National Archives. It must be written in our hearts and defended with our actions. Gore did not start a civil war when he lost Bush v. Gore. Dred Scott is the most ignoble Supreme Court decision of all times. It sparked the Civil War. Yet Americans obeyed it. Korematsu was another disaster. It upheld the internment of loyal Japanese American citizens during WWII. When it was argued, solid evidence existed from military officials that Japanese Americans were never a threat. There were spies but not these people. People obeyed the order.

We are a nation of laws and principles or a chaotic mess of shifting popular values. Supreme Court justices frequently believe the Court is wrong. The belief is that we have more freedom in a nation of laws than a nation of passions.

This is the cause of my life. I would die for it. Hopefully, it won't be necessary. Living in lower NY, 9/11 affected me so globally. I flinched before my mind was conscious of a miitary plane overhead. Half my fire house perished. I dated, worked, shopped, did dry cleaning at the World Trade Center. There was no escape from grief b/c it was so public. One of my biggest fears was using a taxi again. Most of the drivers are Middle Eastern. I was so furious that I feared I would screech and maybe strangle. In the past, I had some shouting matches. If a woman politely asks for a certain route, their manhood is often triggered. Some of them are not even frightened by promises to report them so they are fined. I fretted. During the aftermath, I also had to go to Bellevue for medical treatment. The main trauma center for the city had thousands of flyers of the missing with votive candles blzing on a temporary construction wall. Two weeks from the attack, Bellevue was as crowded as a busy subway stop. A woman was in the crowd with heavy burqa. All you could see were the eyes. No one noticed. America is defined by such freedom. Finally, I hailed a taxi. He was an Egyptian college student. Very nice. Tension existed for a few minutes. Soon we had an animated conversation.

Focus on specific instances of intolerance from a few people who happen to be Moslem, just as there always have been a few Christians, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists who are intolerant. I grew up being told Russians who kill me and deny any right to worship. Interestingly, as soon as the Communists fell, the Russian Orthdox Church emerged, stronger than ever. Propaganda is propaganda. It serves a legitimate purpose. Radical Moslems pose a threat but the marketplace of ideas is the place to engage them. Denying ourselves the rights countless Americans died preserving is pointless. We are shooting ourselves.

54

Temporarily tired of JW boyfriend. Should I: a) leave

by SEL in

or b) continue in my plan of eventually getting him out with steve hassan's help?.

option b is going to be expensive but not impossibly so.

but it would require more patience than i think i have.

Band on the Run

A thought just occurred to me. There were NO boyfriends and girlfriends when I was a Witness. Indeed, I clearly remember hearing that love was impossible at marriage, which was a major bummer for a young romantic girl. What business does he have romancing you, being attracted to you, when he has doors to knock. What KH elders are letting him date a non JW? This seems inauthentic to me.

When I was active, a couple might date for a month or two but very carefully chaperoned. Marriage was the outcome. And that was very frowned upon. My mother had to buy her own wedding ring b/c my Bethelite father saw no need for one. Their local KH shunned them because they married and the time was short. With A. coming next week or even this week, why waste time on another person? KNock on doors. Marriage was a very shameful thing.

I see JW dating sites. Never in my day. I was so interested in boys. Not more so than anyone else. I could not admit it. The only thing I could voice was to pioneer and marriage was dishonorable Celibacy was the rule. My married aunt said the most important she did with her life was not marry my beloved uncle. No, it was pioneering. She was ashamed she was married.

This is the heritage you will inheirit.